Posts by Joel Wideman

60

My Escape

by Joel Wideman in

my mother was roman catholic and, it turns out, mentally ill. she was rushed into marriage when my father got her pregnant with me.

he was also catholic, a sailor, and an alcoholic.. .

when my father was going to be sent to vietnam, my mother threatened to kill me and herself.

Do the words "logical fallacy" mean anything to you?
People have refuted your statements regarding 1975. If you're going to attack straw men, pick better ones.
Blaming the parents is almost as good as blaming the victim. To really twist the knife, insinuate that the parents had their own nefarious reason for not taking the child to the doctor. Completely ignore the fact that many JWs go the elders first, for fear of being DF'd.
I cannot address your specific example, as I am not privy to the details. I will not stoop to discounting the story. In fact, I'm glad that the abuser was not protected, and was not welcomed back with open arms to abuse again once he had repented. (That is what you're saying, right?) However, I feel it necessary to point out two things. One, a child cannot be considered a credible witness, according to the Society. Two, a doctor can only determine that penetration occured. They can't determine other forms of sexual abuse, and certainly can't identify the abuser. I'm rather amazed that a doctor was invited to testify at a JC. Or was the abuser was already in jail when he was DF'd?
You point at one case and use that as "proof" that molesters aren't harbored. Rather than drag anyone else into this, I'll simply point at numerous supporting cases.
You love attacking straw men, huh? I never said I blamed my parents' divorce on the WTS. My parents got divorced because my father is an alcoholic (now sober 25 years and counting) and my mother is batshit crazy.
How about defending the flip-flopping as shown on the Quotes website? How about defending the WTS instead of attacking me? Could it be that, as you state you aren't a Witness, you aren't here to defend but to attack? Your posting history suggests that.

81

Heres your chance..........

by defd in

jw
friends

to show what we are really made of.

i have been going through extreme stress, almost disstress.

i will not reveal what it is at this time.

Joel Wideman

There was this fisherman who would go out to sea every day. Some days he brought home a boat full of fish, other days he didn't bring home any. But no matter what, he was always happy because he loved the sea.
Then he spent a long time not being able to catch a single fish. He began to worry that he'd never catch another fish. He grew more anxious with each passing day. He became angry at the sea. He started to hate the sea. He muttered curses under his breath as he rowed out, curses as he fished, and more curses as he rowed back in.
Then one day he could take it no more. "Must I die penniless?" he shouted at the sea itself. "Is this my punishment for fishing in your waters?"
The biggest fish he'd ever seen broke the surface of the water. To his further amazement, it opened its mouth and began to speak.
"Why are you shouting?" it asked. "You're scaring away all my food."
"Your food?" he asked.
"Yes, the fish in this area are tasty, but your shouting has scared them away."
Now the fisherman understood what had been happening. "I'm shouting because I'm angry. I'm a fisherman and depend on the fish in this sea for my livelihood. But you've been eating them all."
The big fish was very understanding. "The sea is big enough for both of us. But I'm curious - do you ALWAYS catch the fish when you come here?"
"Well... no."
"Did that always make you angry?"
"Well... no."
"Then what changed?"
The fisherman thought about this. "I guess... I changed."
He heard a splash and looked around, but the big fish was gone. Realizing he wasn't going to catch any fish that day either, he sat back and enjoyed being at sea. When the sun fell, he went home.
Every day after that, he went out to sea. Some days he caught fish, some days he didn't. Some days he didn't even try, but just enjoyed being at sea.
And he was never angry at the sea again.

60

My Escape

by Joel Wideman in

my mother was roman catholic and, it turns out, mentally ill. she was rushed into marriage when my father got her pregnant with me.

he was also catholic, a sailor, and an alcoholic.. .

when my father was going to be sent to vietnam, my mother threatened to kill me and herself.

Joel Wideman

Mark, it is clear that you choose to believe that the people who left were themselves at fault, rather than the Society's well-documented fearmongering. If the Society said that tomorrow the world will end, two days later there'd be people making excuses for why it did not. A year later, they'd be saying that the Society never said that.
I find it interesting that the only issue you chose to challenge was the 1975 one. That was the least of my reasons for leaving, and yet you pounced upon it like a cat on a catnip toy. Did you think you could distract people away from the more difficult to challenge issues of harboring child molesters, lies, and attempted silencing of those who expose those lies?

35

JW Literature-why not public?

by AllAlongTheWatchtower in

this might be old hat to those of you with more experience in the wts/witness life, but it struck me as very odd, perhaps even a bit sinister.

i started coming here so i could find out just what my wife was getting herself into.

on my first day here, i learned about the blood doctrine, and that was enough to convince me.

Joel Wideman

Oroboros, just a minor - but important - correction. In the US, a work is under copyright protection the moment it is produced. Registration of copyright is not required to enjoy legal protection of copyright, though it is required for civil lawsuits. Further, what you are talking about is Mandatory Deposit. Failure to comply does not affect copyright protection, and exceptions to Mandatory Deposit may be granted.

55

THE MOTIVES OF GOOD JWS WHO POST ON THIS SITE

by steve2 in

while i think it's perfectly okay, i do wonder what motivates jws to post here and especially to also express views critical of ex-jws.

is it the freudian notion of "projection": the jw who denounces something in others that he or she is also guilty of?

hence, if a jw clearly denounces an apostate's faults, it must mean the jw is really against apostasy when it might be something he or she struggles with.

Joel Wideman

It could be genuine Christian love motivating them to bring back some "lost sheep".

5

Do you wish to control the lives of others?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i want you to start eating less meat, as it makes me feel better?

i want you to start investing in stocks, as it made me a lot of money?

i want you to break up with your girlfriend as i do not like her?

Joel Wideman

I think it is important to realize that there is not a single path to happiness.

9

Russell of Annointed, how do you know?

by Woodsman in

when russell started the wts and began promoting his epistimology the teachings were not what they were today.

most noteable was that christ was present in 1874. thus he believed he and others were chosen by christ to be of the elect remnant who would serve as part of the 144,000 the witnesses recognize today.. the problem occurs when the wts, or judge rutherford, changed 1874 to 1914. .

now christ did not perform any "inspection" until 1919.. he did not chose any fds until 1919.. well, russell was dead in 1919.. therefore prior to 1919 russell was just as any other christian group was.

Joel Wideman

"And as for the 144,000 it is not a literal number only symbolic number."
When did that happen?

60

My Escape

by Joel Wideman in

my mother was roman catholic and, it turns out, mentally ill. she was rushed into marriage when my father got her pregnant with me.

he was also catholic, a sailor, and an alcoholic.. .

when my father was going to be sent to vietnam, my mother threatened to kill me and herself.

Joel Wideman

That's called covering your ass. Something the Society told Witness youths not to do until 1994.
Now let me ask you. If the Society never said 1975 was the end, then why did so many people believe it at the time? Could it have had anything to do with articles like this:
Watchtower 1966 October 15 pp.628-9 Rejoicing over "God's Sons of Liberty" Spiritual Feast
Only a liberated people can preach a release to captives, conventioners were told in the speech "Preach a Release to the Captives," which thrilled them with its hopeful outlook. "Jehovah, the God of freedom and liberty, has freed his people from Babylonish bondage and has given them a work of liberation to do. That work of liberation and salvation must go on to the finish! To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God," announced President Knorr, "a new book in English, entitled 'Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God,' has been published." At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!

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